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Broadlands Town Hall Meeting Tuesday, December 11

Discussion in 'Local Area Events' started by The Broadlands Community, Dec 5, 2018 at 1:55 PM.

  1. The Broadlands Community

    The Broadlands Community Member

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    Meeting will be 4:30-6:00PM and held at the Broadlands Clubhouse at 43360 Rickenbacker Sq

    Denise Harrover, Vice President of Planning and Entitlements of Van Metre Companies will provide a presentation on the proposed section 202 annexation into Broadlands, which includes 261 townhome and condominium units on the former George Mason University property on Demott Drive between Waxpool Road and Mooreview Parkway/LCPS school site. Presented information includes unit style, section parking/landscape/amenity plan, pedestrian bridge connecting Village Drive and Demott Drive providing access to the Harris Teeter shopping center complete with pathway lighting, and annexation fees. Broadlands Association will present benefits/impacts to the community.

    Section 200 Annexation Information>>

    If you would like to submit questions in advance or have inquiries, contact Sarah Gerstein at 703-729-9704 or Sarah@broadlandshoa.com. The Broadlands Board intends to vote on the annexation at the Board meeting following the town hall meeting.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 4:23 PM
  2. shim

    shim shim

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    Denise must not live in the community or she would realize how ridiculous it is to shoehorn 261 new dwellings into that space. Maybe the HOA can perform an environmental impact study on the mosquito sanctuary the development will abut... you know the soggy thing with boardwalks around it.
     
  3. BarnesFamily

    BarnesFamily Member

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    Just what we need, more condos and townhouses crammed into any green space. Fantastic...:thumbsdown:
     
  4. KTdid

    KTdid Well-Known Member

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    And more traffic...

    It's always about $$$

    The only impact study Van Metre will conduct is to their wallets...
     
    BarnesFamily likes this.
  5. BarnesFamily

    BarnesFamily Member

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    The County is already doing a study on how to mitigate the death box intersection of Demott and Waxpool. This will only make it worse.

    Look forward to the "benefits" this will bring the community.
     
  6. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Don't worry Shim....the school will be between these residences and the skeeters!
     
  7. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    I guess it was okay for Van Metre to care about their wallets when they built the home YOU live in? :)
     
    KTdid likes this.
  8. Mr. Linux

    Mr. Linux Senior Member & Moderator Forum Staff

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    Keep in mind that because of Metro, the County BoS has set higher density levels for areas around Metro. Part of the blame falls on the County.
     
    Jeddie Busch and KTdid like this.
  9. dbrow

    dbrow Member

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    What is the rush to vote on this? Obviously, the majority of residents won’t be able to attend. Can the information, including options and alternatives, be shared with the whole community and opinions solicited from the residents first?
     
  10. BarnesFamily

    BarnesFamily Member

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    I agree, why the rush? Is it because Van Metre and the Board know the response will be overwhelmingly negative? Why not include it in the newsletter or have residents vote? Shouldn't the Board have some community feedback before voting on such an impactful annexation?
     
  11. T8erman

    T8erman Well-Known Member

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    Van Metre will build there with or without community input OR the BHOA being involved. Just preferred dlsince it make sense to be part of Broadlands. IMHO
     
  12. Capricorn1964

    Capricorn1964 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed...remember, the county ponied up the $$$ towards metro years ago? I think they want to maximize the tax $$$ to recoup their outlay?
     
  13. Sunstoner

    Sunstoner Southern Walk||IMPERIUM IN IMPERIO||Not OB||

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    If I understand this situation correctly, and I think I do, the decision to allow Van Metre to build out on land they already own is approved and not something the HOA can say no to. The main issue for all of us is, does Broadlands want to let them into the HOA and under what circumstances, and what are the impacts to Broadlands from an HOA perspective? Some of the logic applied here is that these units would impact the HOA (people would purchase outside pool memberships, use the tennis courts, walk on the trails, visit the nature center, etc) anyway, so this is an opportunity to work closely with VanMetre to carefully plan a cooperative approach so this works out for everyone's best interests. Okay, I get it. Let's look closely at the numbers.

    If I understand the numbers in attached memo, the estimates are that VanMetre's annexation fee will provide a one-time up-front payment of $783,000, that the Broadlands board can use on whatever it wants. Also, the estimates show that the additional financial revenue from these new homes will require assessments that are estimated to be about $290,000 annually (plus annual increases), but it will cost only about $160,000 to deliver services to provide HOA amenities, thus leading to about $130,000 in an annual operating surplus? Additionally, the Broadlands HOA has requested about $450,ooo worth of capital investment projects (bridge and some lights) to connect these residences to the Southern Walk Plaza. Presumably, this opens up some type of walking path to the Southern Walk pool as well? So the plan should be to present to the community, what the Broadlands HOA has in-mind for using the additional monies.

    But reading between the lines here, I would wonder the following, does the landscaping contract allow changes to add scope like this? How about the trash pick-up, will that change days, pick-up times, or add cost for Patriot to add new truck(s), hire more drivers, change the pick-up cycle for everyone else in Broadlands (fewer pickups means more garbage blowing around neighborhood as bins overflow)? I would want to know more about what to expect after Patriot and HLS have provided their estimates to increase their scope. What about the snow plow contract? New drivers, new equipment, can we all expect better service or less good service if we have new homes to account for? Also, 261 new homes generates about 3.3 people per home, so count on between 850-950 new HOA residents. How many people will use the pools (ever been to Southern Walk on a hot day or holiday weekend)? How many people will want to sign up for swim lessons, and can Summerbrooke Pool accommodate a couple hundred requests for additional swim lesson patrons? Will there need to be additional lifeguard hires to watch over a few hundred extra swimmers every weekend? If I need 5 extra lifeguards and they cost $20 an hour to employ and they each work 4o0 hours, that costs me $40,000. Get a quote from Patriot, HLS, and the plow contract and assess it in addition to the lifeguard number. Then measure it against the $130,000 annual operating surplus. I would expect we get closer to a break-even at least for the first year.

    Then we need to consider the longer-term impact of almost 1,000 new residents and the longer-term outlook. Will the pools and tennis courts be able to sustain the additional demand? How much does it cost to build a pool, at least the size of the Community Center pool? How much to build two more tennis courts? How much to maintain these annually? How does that lay out against the $783,000? I am sure Van Metre will be very concerned about making sure their new home owners are happy and get to swim in a nice pool on a warm day.

    My advice is to consider three courses of action:

    1) Make VanMetre build a pool and at least two tennis courts and keep everything else the same or say no.

    2) Say no and offer priority outside pool memberships and let them set up their own HOA. This minimizes the impact on Broadlands and offers a sustainable approach for pay for what you consume.

    3) If no to COA #1, then ask for a $5,000 annexation fee. That brings the cash windfall to $1.3 million and is probably something that the HOA can do something special with. What difference does it make to Van Metre, they just pass these costs along anyway. What's an extra $2,000 to someone already paying in excess of $500,000 on a home? To them, not much, but to us, the HOA residents that live here, it could mean the difference between being stuck fixing burned out amenities, dealing with too much demand on resources we have grown to enjoy versus planning proactively and maintaining our property values.

    The Broadlands HOA is doing a good thing allowing input from the residents in the Community.
     
    flynnibus likes this.
  14. KTdid

    KTdid Well-Known Member

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    It's formality only to ask BHOA to vote in. It was a done deal when they did the land swap (GM campus) otherwise Van Metre would not have made the switch. This was a sweet deal for Van Metre - more $$$ for them.
     
  15. The Broadlands Community

    The Broadlands Community Member

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    Sunstoner, the expenses for trash, grounds, and snow have already been accounted for and still leave a $130,000 surplus in the annual operating budget. Levels of service would not be jeopardized for existing residents, as the contractors would apply more resources to the contracts since they would cost more. If the pools get overcrowded, the Board would likely discontinue the sale of outside pool memberships. If additional amenities are built (though there is no space for anything further), there would be significant increased expenses for the operations and reserves for such amenities.
     
  16. Sunstoner

    Sunstoner Southern Walk||IMPERIUM IN IMPERIO||Not OB||

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    If i believe that general economy of scale applies than okay. However, I believe that is a useful cost estimation practice when there is a mature manufacturing and production process. The analogy here is that a 12 oz can of soda costs 25 cents to produce and a 16 oz can of soda costs 26 cents to produce. With a one third increase in quantity, there's only a 4% increase in cost. When you add the ability to sell the product at $1 dollar for the 16 oz can versus 75 cents for the 12 oz can, consumers believe that is a good deal because they are a little thirstier than just wanting 12 oz, and 25 extra cents is not a big deal. There are a lot of factors that allow that to happen, but I don't know those are good assumptions here.

    Let me provide this analogy. I have a family of five and drive a five passenger sedan. A sixth family member comes and joins the family. Now we need an SUV or a minivan. In order to acquire that vehicle, I have to turn in my sedan (disposition and disposal cause me to lose money on the asset), acquire a new vehicle (increased insurance, acquisition costs, taxes), and pay more every month to pay the car loan (principal plus interest). Since interest is the rent charge to borrow money, I really get nothing out of it.

    The scenarios above are representative to production and manufacturing versus service delivery. Providing plowing, trash, landscaping, common area maintenance, and staffing at community pools is more representative of service delivery. Service delivery efforts are often form to fit and are not as scalable as mature production and manufacturing.

    If the contractors haven't passed along these costs or mentioned these costs, I would be wary.

    If COA 1 is off the table, then consider COA 3...

    See you Tuesday.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018 at 11:34 AM
  17. BarnesFamily

    BarnesFamily Member

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    My concern is less the development of the land, but the fact it comes with high density housing. The last green spaces in Broadlands have been filled with condos- over by Clydes, a small piece of land on Wynnridge, and now this. This seems to be the largest as well, at 216 units. I simply don't believe the HOA has the infrastructure to handle this influx, for several reasons Sunstoner mentioned above. Lets not forget all of the high density development going on just west on Belmont Ridge, and east on Mooreview.

    Perhaps COA 4 should be single family homes vs high density.
     
  18. Sunstoner

    Sunstoner Southern Walk||IMPERIUM IN IMPERIO||Not OB||

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    I think what Mr Linux said is mostly correct. Loudoun County wants higher density homes within walking distance of the metro. Having them in the special tax zone offsets the costs and impacts the county faces in paying their part of the metro bill. That's not something anyone can do much about.
     
  19. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    These were never green spaces - just planned development that had not started yet.

    I echo much of what @Sunstoner said... we should make sure this is a positive addition for Broadlands. Van Metre are the ones who get to claim all these services and amenities when they sell the units. Just think what a townhome with NO amenities can offer... vs one that has 3 pools, trails, tennis, community centers, etc.

    We have assets that are aging and will take large capital to refresh. VM is a 'one and done' here with the current proposal, and they get the ezPass of not having to build this stuff, nor operate as an HOA for years as they normally would. This is a sweetheart advantage for VM. Let's make sure their contribution matches their advantages.
     
    PDILLM likes this.

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