Curious- if LA bans fast food in poor areas-

yes, and the govmnt has no PLACE, IMHO, to make that decision FOR me. if i had no car, and the govmnt decided that i lived in a fast food free zone, then i would HAVE no choice. not cool!

 

It's a slippery slope when you place all this power in the hands of government bureaucrats...beware what you ask for!

 

I think the crux of the issue goes deeper than the article portends. I agree Redon and Kaos in personal responsibility, but lacking that, how are we as a society addressing the rising medical costs attributed to childhood obesity and the diseases associated such as diabetes and high blood pressure, over the long term? As a society we all pay, not just the individual and what better way to address it by taking measures at the local and state level. Could lessen the tax burden too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/20/nyregion/20bodega.html

The communities they're addressing are not the affluent commmunties where every household has two or more cars at their disposal and 8 grocery stores within a 5 mile radius. They're addressing the disenfranchised, the poorer communities that lack grocery stores yet have a convenience store / bodega and liquor store on every corner.

 

I would argue that the "better" way to address it is to NOT teach a new generation that it's up to the gvmnt to "take away toys that can harm us" but rather up to teaching them how to make better choices, parental responsibility, support from the schools (better lunches, fruit, water and juices in machine rather than candy, chocolate and soda) and as someone said before healthy alternatives at the same price point.

as one who has struggled with weight her whole life, and saw fast food as a prize, i know the downfalls of it. but i'll be damned if the gvmnt can tell me that i am too weak or stupid to make the right choices so THEHY will take care of it.

teach CONSEQUENCES and take action that encourages good behavior! just like parenting- you can't keep everything AWAY your kid- you have knives in the drawer and teach them that they are dangerous and not to hold them incorrectly. you LET trhem play outside and teach them what suspicious behavior is and how to handle it by coming to a trusted adult for help. you don't insulate them in a box to "save them from themselves.

Kaos, I stole your soapbox! But yes, you can have some juice.

 

By taking away recess in school! Brilliant.

Okay, if your goal is to decrease the health costs to society, then local, state and federal governments need to immediately enact the following:
(1) Ban all tobacco products. Smoking causes cancer and emphysema, with extraordinarily high costs of treatment.

(2) Ban alcohol. What are the costs of alcoholism, related car accidents, etc to society?

Why stop there? Let's ban the use of growth hormones being injected into our beef and food supply. Let's ban preservatives and other chemicals in prepackaged foods. Ban soda.

Let's mandate that every person be required to exercise three times per week. How far are you willing to go?

 

And lacking parental responsibility what's the other option? Put the burden on the schools? Who, then, teaches or provides "guidance" about proper nutrition, exercise...? This is not an argument but a question.

I am pleased that I live in a country where "government" imposes laws and industry regulations to keep us safe from unsafe cars and dangerous prescription drugs and lead based painted toys. I'm glad we have traffic laws and criminal law. Is the govenment now telling us how to behave morally or only trying to maintain civil order and obedience? If what LA is imposing by providing "better" options is akin to "taking away toys that can harm us" then what's the alternative?

 

it's a great question and fair, civil argument- i love hearing the other side! i don't think it's a BURDEN on the school- i grew up with health class, PE, nutrition, the food pyramid, etc. The Boy comes home from Hillside Elementary and talks about health and nutrition that he has learned about- he ate his FIRST caesar salad at SCHOOL!

and given the current state of the nation, schools SHOULD tweak the curriculum anyway- EVERYWHERE- to reflect real life issues. cut down how long they talk about Virginia History (not OUT- DOWN) and make room for PRACTICAL learnings like what a healthy lung vs a smokers lung looks like and how it effects you life, what healthy organs and organs covered in FAT look like, and their effect. before and after pics of meth heads- it's compelling, scared straight tactics that are effective in many cases. they did it in my school- why not now?

there's no way to FIX everyone- ppl will inherently make bad decisions- after all, it feels gooood to be bad! lol

BUT, there's a difference between stacking the odds in one's favor, and censorship. (i know they aren't closing down fast food restaurants in the poorer 'hoods yet, but is THAT what is next?) do they create an even MORE depressed ecnomy in those neighborhoods b/c no new businesses want to take the risk of a successful operation there?

don't take away the right to choose from everyone because of the irresponsible choices made by some. that works in boot camp, but not in real life.

 

We obviously went to the same school! I think that's another subject for another thread.

At a minimum, the subject about proper nutrition is now being discussed (in LA). That's a start. And I believe this will encourage not discourage new business and will encourage the existing restaurants to provide healthier food choices. I don't believe this came about due to a few who made irresponsible choices - since 2000 poor nutrition has jumped ahead of other diseases responsible for death in the US and the percentages increase disproportionately in poorer communities.

 

Fair question, but I hope you don't want the government taking on this responsibility for parents! Their track record isn't so hot, you know, especially when it comes to the FDA (protection against prescription drugs, are you serious?!). Part of living in a free society is that parents and individuals can make bad choices.

Prescribing personal decisions is not maintaining civil order and obedience! Remember that our system is set up to protect us from the encroachment of government--we are supposed to grant the government specific responsibilities, not the other way around. It's called self-government.

This is what I fear for the next generation. We have become so soft and addicted to security that we are allowing the government to become the nanny state, and in doing so, trading away our liberty.

Just watch when residents complain because no healthy restaurants can make a profit in the area, and jobs are lost at the fast food places because they can't expand!

 

i don't argue that there's a HUGE portion of the population that is weighing down the system with obesity related health issues- but let's look at WHY it's more prevalent in poor neighborhoods:

let's look at a day in the life in some poor households- WELFARE sit at home on their butt recipients not withstanding: (and that's not saying ALL welfare recips DO that, I'm only excluding those who DO)

- less time to cook b/c you work long long min wage hours.
- to keep electric or gas bill down you use as few appliances as possible
- poor judgement, poor decision making or poor education is often why you are poor ** caveat to this- i grew up poor because we were a one income, enlisted military, 6 kids, mom stayed home to raise us family. i know poor is NOT always your own fault. sometimes it just IS.

MIDDLE OR UPPER CLASS:

- one party may stay home and has time, resources, energy to cook
- both parties work? you can hire a chef or go to a pre made meal place to provide healthy meals quickly to your family
- sooo many more healthy restaurant options out there since you likely live in a place that is alive and thriving with choices
- you have an incentive to stay fit, you are going to the beach on vacation every year!
- you can afford to belong to a gym
- to fat? hire a personal trainer. get lipo.

bottom line- i don't want the gvrnmnt restricting the freedom to make a choice. obesity is more prevalent in poorer folks because they don't have the availability, time, opportunity or money that the other classes have to battle their weight issues. they have as much right to make the bad decisions as we do. they aren't ignorant fools that need their hands held any more than the fat cat rich executive to got fat on duck liver pate and steak instead of big macs and fries. they have the opportunity to MAKE good choices as well as bad and deserve it.

 

I'm not asking for it... I'm just saying that's the way it is. Perhaps not in so many words, but isn't a large part of the role of our elected officials to do 'good' for their community?

 

Fair enough, and I understand your argument. I don't disagree with it either. But at some point they DO decide certain things are a detriment to us as a society and some things are banned. Pot, cocaine, etc. Granted these are not food items so perhaps I'm comparing apples and oranges, but I believe the 'intent' behind the ban is similar if not exactly the same. The good and the health of our society. Now personally I think cigarettes should be on that list too, but as you say, where do you stop once you start making that list? I get that.

 

i hear ya- i get your point 100%. i say the line is crossed by censoring fast food. shoot- you can make a salad unhealthy with the wrong dressing!

 

Very true! I was just feeding my kids (whole wheat pasta and organic sauce, carrots on the side) and it occurred to me that not only do I try to teach them manners (I require 'yes please' or 'no thank you') but I am also teaching them healthy eating habits. Partly by not buying CRAP for them on a regular basis (they have Happy Meals occasionally, yes, but they know they're a treat) but because of my own emphasis on putting good food in my body, they always ask, "Mommy, is this healthy?"

Children need to be taught these things, just like their ABCs. If mom and dad consistently give them garbage food to eat, it doesn't matter what they learn in schools about the food pyramid.

 

A-MEN. we operate the same way in this house- the boy has known since he was 4 that protein is for strong muscles, carbs are for energy and water is for flexibility! He has decided to cut soda out of his diet- his own decision- and orders lemonade or juice at restaurants. (we don't have soda in the house.) Now I know that lemonade is NOT that much better than soda- BUT, his recognition at 9 that soda is not good for him is awesome.

We exercise, we don't ban anything, we simply limit junk, and he has made his own choices for 2 years now and makes GOOD ones. but you know why? PARTLY because we TAKE time to think about our own health and set a good- not GREAT, good- example. and PARTLY because he watched Shaq's big challenge, participates in sports and treats his body like he's a pro athlete- I can pry him out of his under armor! and PARTLY because when he has eaten crap and feels like crap, he can tell. he feels better when he eats better, we point it out casually and moooove on. i am very proud of him and the healthy start HE is getting. hopefully he won't struggle with weight like The Man and I do.

all parents won't and/or don't do it, but at a certain point, as young as NINE, a kid can choose juice or milk at mickey d's and fruit instead of fries because he knows better, even if mommy or daddy doesn't.

 

We were at a place today with a soda machine and my 3 year old sees it, recognizes it, and says, "Mommy... we don't drink soda."

Neither of my children have ever had a sip of soda. But other than that, as you say, we don't ban anything... just teach that some things are healthy, some things are not, some things we eat frequently, some things are treats. (Hubby gave them cheetos in Sunday School.)

Anyway... speaking of said kids, I'm gonna put their dragging rear-ends to bed after they had freezer pops and yogurt for dessert, quit hijacking this thread, and hope that Mr. Linux doesn't boot me...

 

Better ban Starbucks! One of the news shows was reporting that one of the foo-foo drinks at Starbucks (I can't remember which one) had more fat and calories than a Big Mac!

 

Hey Baywatch-
Better hope they don't get rid of In N Out!! Went there three times during my week in San Diego!

 

let them eat cake


i kid, i kid.

 

I love that place, but it's not as good as Five Guys.