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LCPS Furlough Days

Discussion in 'Broadlands Community Issues' started by TeamDonzi, Nov 21, 2010.

  1. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    Not quite true. Of the eight large districts, the AVERAGE salary and benefits package for LCPS is over $83,000. It was the HIGHEST of the eight districts.
    The article was in the November 10 paper.
    Again, this is with salary and benefits, not just salary.

    And to reiterate....my issue is not with teacher compensation, but administrative overhead.
     
  2. bgirl

    bgirl New Member

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    Actually, vacliff, you are wrong.

    The information that you quote about benefits is based on a teacher salary of $60,000 across the board, in every district, so to call it the “average” salary and benefits as you did was incorrect. While the average teacher salary for LCPS is close to $60,000, the average teacher salaries for all the other counties is higher.

    I am attaching the link to the document published by the Washington Area Boards of Education. This is the document that all the newspapers refer to when writing their articles, so you can check the information I am presenting.

    To compare apples to apples here, I took the average teacher salary for each district (found on p. 37 of the report) and using the benefits package percentage (found at the end of the report), I figured out the actual average salary and benefits package. I also think it’s important to note that the benefits package includes the amount that is paid into social security. I’m not sure it should, as every employer needs to pay that for employees, but it is included.

    Alexandria
    $91,015​
    Arlington County
    $100,974​
    Fairfax County
    $88,374​
    Falls Church City
    $89,285​
    Loudoun County
    $81,778​
    Manassas City
    $82,798​
    Prince George’s County
    $88,602​
    Prince William County
    $82,230​

    Guess what? LCPS is at the bottom of the list.

    I also want to highlight the following information, which is the cost per pupil. If you look at the graduation rates and SOL test scores included in the report (LCPS ranks 1st and 4th, respectively), I’d say that the people of Loudoun County are getting a bargain.

    Alexandria
    $16,983​
    Arlington County
    $17,322​
    Fairfax County
    $12,597​
    Falls Church City
    $16,729​
    Loudoun County
    $10,833​
    Manassas City
    $11,351​
    Prince George’s County
    $11,611​
    Prince William County
    $9,577​


    My goal is to make all the taxpayers of Loudoun County better-informed consumers about our school system. My hope is that when you realize what a tremendous value you are getting from LCPS and its fine staff (especially teachers), you will be willing to support the school board’s budget request for the next fiscal year.
     
  3. Mazinger

    Mazinger New Member

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    Where are Montgomery county and Howard county?
     
  4. vacliff

    vacliff "You shouldn't say that."

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    I guess we can go back and forth and decides whose statistics is correct. I was simply quoting what was WRITTEN in the newspaper.
    It was the November 10 edition of the LTM, not Post. It also uses WABE as the source.
    Here's, in part, what it said:

    "While Loudoun may excel in sending its students off to college, the guide states that LCPS teachers are paid the least in the region, netting an average income of $59,376.
    In addition, the guide states that the teacher cost comparison, a measure of salary and benefits costs for one teacher position with a hypothetical annual salary of $60,000, is the highest in the region at $82,638."

    Yes, I can support the teachers, but DO NOT support Hatrick's budget requests.
     
  5. Capricorn1964

    Capricorn1964 Well-Known Member

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    Just curious here, 'Tis all, but pray tell, why don't you support his budget requests?
     
  6. msflynn

    msflynn New Member

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    Don't know about Cliff, but I can tell you why I don't
    He spends all the money on his pet projects and the people to do the Admin work and none of it on the items that really make a difference in the classroom (ie the TEACHERS)
    For example in each middle school you have a principle, an assistant principle, a min 2 secretaries in the front office, then a secretary for each grade (6th, 7th and 8th), a dean for each grade (6th, 7th and 8th), a guidance counselor for each grade (6th, 7th and 8th) and a guidance counselor for the incoming 6th graders. That is 14 administrators in 13 MS and I am sure it is the same thing in the HS. Is that really the best use of our tax dollars for education. And that does not even touch the number of admins that work in the Administration offices only.
    Any time Hatrick has to make any kind of cuts he never touches these positions but instead goes after the ones that most effect our kids and teachers and thus makes people scream. Also ask the school board to see where they are spending the money. They have no idea there is no one up there that is willing to tell you where each and every dollar is spent.
    The county tried to work with the school board a few years ago so that duplicate services were not being paid for by both the county and the school and the school could not come up with any definite figures on an amount spent and people served yet the county was able to produce those numbers to the penny. Hatrick is bully. It really is time for Loudoun County to get someone in as superintendent who actually has the best interest of the kids and teachers 1st and not their own agenda.

    Staci
     
  7. Capricorn1964

    Capricorn1964 Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting information. Isn't it time for a state auditor or county auditor to look at the facts and see if it isn't neccessary for all those administrators in the school system? Mind boggling to me why they can't have just ONE dean to handle three or four grades? In my high school in Fairfax County back in the 80's, they didn't have a Dean for EACH grade but multiple grades. Seems that the school hierarchy is so bloated with too many administrators that the costs is unsustainable in the future.

    Perhaps the union needs to speak up? Just a thought....

    By the way, principle isn't the right word. Its principal.

     
  8. msflynn

    msflynn New Member

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    Exactly. That is what my problem is with the way Hatrick presents his "budget".

    And thank you - typing too fast for my own good :)
     
  9. sunnydog

    sunnydog New Member

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    Dear Capricorn, we've been audited:
    http://www.doe.virginia.gov/school_finance/efficiency_reviews/loudoun_co.pdf

    And Cliff, we have the lowest overhead for administration in the surrounding areas.

    And Staci, the support positions that you mention are to support the operations - all the "stuff" that goes on to support education....testing, transportation, discipline, attendance, medical issues, social/psychological services, counseling, course selection, technology integration, just to name a few so that classroom teachers can focus on instructional needs.
     
  10. sunnydog

    sunnydog New Member

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    I forgot to mention that much of the staffing requirements are driven by SOQ - Virginia Standards of Quality related to staffing ratios. So while you (or I) may not be keen on the levels of overhead/support staffing, the law states that we must...

    You can find them here:http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+22.1-253.13C2
     
  11. Capricorn1964

    Capricorn1964 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting and while I've read a few pages of it...Two things caught my eye:

    1) Teacher attrition- seems the reviewing company is concerned about the rate of attrition being high?

    2) Data seems old...2007? We need a more updated report reflecting NOW...not 2007.
     
  12. msflynn

    msflynn New Member

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    If I did not see many of these "positions" sitting around with their feet on their desk, eating, watching TV, socializing and doing NONE of the above mentioned "support" I would agree with you. But I am sorry if they have that much extra time on their hands, in this economy, what is being handled by 3+ needs to be handled by 1 person. Do not get me wrong I am not saying support is not needed, but there is NO reason you need 14 positions. All positions need to be re-evaluated for need so that it is not always the teachers/ students that have to make the sacrifices.

    Staci
     
  13. Capricorn1964

    Capricorn1964 Well-Known Member

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    Hate to say this, but I agree. If someone is seeing too many administrators with too much time on their hands, its time to trim the fat, so to speak. Too many folks are working MORE jobs in one job nowadays and that includes myself too.
     
  14. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    And you feel these needs have increased by 5-10x fold in the last twenty years?

    How many Principles and Deans did your middle school have?
     
  15. Capricorn1964

    Capricorn1964 Well-Known Member

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    Flynnibus...its PrincipALs.. Heh...
     
  16. sunnydog

    sunnydog New Member

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    My middle school had no deans - one principal and 2 assistant principals, one counselor per grade level and two secretaries. In the past 20 years though what has increased are the special education requirements, school saftey requirements, the standardized testing, the social/emotional and psychological needs of students (again, driven largely by laws requiring districts to provide services).

    I do believe in streamlining service delivery, rethinking the "central office" model of "support", and holding staff accountable for quality output/service. If any of my team members sat around with their feet up or socialized or did not produce, I would have them moved into classroom TA positions.

    In my department we have not increased staff in 4 years despite increased enrollment and responsibilities precisely because of what we believe - streamline, reconsider our models, and hold people accountable. I guess I would be one of the "overhead/overpaid administrators" who works 12 months a year and makes 30% less than I could in the private sector that I left 10 years ago. ;)
     
  17. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    So all the things you list as increasing - why do we need more administrators to satisfy those needs instead of the actual worker bees?

    Or how about another more disgusting area covered here before - administration bloat in sports at the HS level?

    The overhead required is disgusting.
     
  18. sunnydog

    sunnydog New Member

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    I'm not sure that our administration overhead is increasing. Deans are on a teacher contract, and social workers, psychs, etc. are on an auxiliary contract. We have not increased the number of admin supervisors or coordinators - the areas that have increased are in federal programs are typically grant/federally funded.

    Sports is a whole different issue - one that I cannot speak to with any authority.
     
  19. bgirl

    bgirl New Member

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    Where exactly does it state in that article that the amount of $82,638 is the "AVERAGE salary and benefits package" as you stated in your earlier post? It does NOT say that anywhere in the article. So essentially you misunderstood what you read and then posted it as fact, thereby misinforming the folks who read this forum.

    Again, the LCPS benefits package as a percentage of the salary is the highest, but the average teacher salary and benefits package is the lowest in the region.
     
  20. bgirl

    bgirl New Member

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    They are not included in this year's Washington Area Boards of Education report. I have no idea why.
     

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