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Southern Walk Homeowner meet on Nov 19, 2013

Discussion in 'Broadlands Community Issues' started by cogs, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. cogs

    cogs Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the first hour or so spent on arguing about the litigation. I didnt think that was worth mentioning. After you and two other homeowners left, there were no more arguments. You should have stayed longer.

    There were no minutes taken as it was a casual exchange of ideas and thoughts.
     
  2. Sunny

    Sunny Chief Advisor

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    When did the meeting end? And I didn't think there was arguing except for when Dwayne tried to correct the information you had. I did think you were going on and on about how the swhoa has failed so badly. I would have loved to have heard what ideas the other folks in the room had for forward movement. I would also like to see here what the other attendees thought about the productivity of that meeting.
     
  3. vikasgarg24

    vikasgarg24 New Member

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    Do team has any strategy to move forward or just criticising existing board. ???
     
  4. sowalker

    sowalker New Member

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    How many attendees were there?
     
  5. cogs

    cogs Well-Known Member

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    First of all, its not a big deal for community members to have difference of opinion. Dwayne was insisting that Appeals Court overturned District court's rulings which is not true. When I tried to correct him that appeals court upheld district courts dismissal on standing issue but ruled that the dismissal should be without prejudice, which allows SWHOA to appeal the case again, he did not like it and walked away.

    Here is the court ruling.
    http://isysweb.ca4.uscourts.gov/isy...fe6424d-f356-4e79-bd43-16426dd7f6d0/1/hilite/

    On page 13:
    Although we conclude that Southern Walk failed to plead facts adequate to establish either individual or representational standing, we cannot affirm the district court’s ultimate dismissal of Southern Walk’s amended complaint with prejudice.

    A dismissal for lack of standing—or any other defect in subject matter jurisdiction—must be one without prejudice, because a court that lacks jurisdiction has no power to adjudicate and dispose of a claim on the merits.


    On Page 14:
    Accordingly, we affirm the judgment of the district court to the extent that it dismisses Southern Walk’s amended complaint, but we vacate the judgment to the extent that the dismissal was with prejudice, and remand with instructions that the case be dismissed without prejudice.

    On page 16:
    In sum, we affirm that portion of the district court’s judgment dismissing Southern Walk’s complaint, but vacate that judgment to the extent that the dismissal was with prejudice, and remand to that court for dismissal of the case without prejudice.

    After Dwayne left, the other homeowner who was supporting the SWHOA stated, that the HOA's goal was to get a chance to appeal again. That is a more reasonable statement and I would not object as it is not a misrepresentation of the court ruling.

    We stayed until little after 10PM.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
  6. sowalker

    sowalker New Member

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    Well it seems as that was very productive. When is the next one scheduled for?
     
  7. Capricorn1964

    Capricorn1964 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds productive but what I am VERY concerned about is what the SWHOA will do in their next steps if we lose the appeal/lawsuit and what the impact will be with the BHOA- I had NO idea that they would definitely go through with the pulling in of BHOA as a defendant. That blew me away since that wasn't communicated to the membership and I that they would be intending to do this. I don't think this is conductive and only serves to divide the entire community and causes legal bills to pile on and HOA fees on both sides to rise. I am making a bet that BHOA and OB will be working together because Van Metre representatives still sit on the BHOA board which would be more damaging to SWHOA efforts on the lawsuit. I wish that cooler heads would have prevailed here.

    Hope the meeting was productive and that ideas on what next steps should or would be was shared.

    How many members were there, COGS?
     
  8. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    Remember.. the SWHOA was only a shell setup to collect fees that were being passed onto Openband. As such, the entity was never managed to have large reserves, etc. BHOA on the other hand is a full bore HOA - which includes property, assets, employees, capital reserves, a legit operating budget, and a dues structure to actually fund the organization. The BHOA gets sued all the time by all kinds of people for all kinds of reasons. The BHOA has legal representation all the time and there is money budgeted for that kind of stuff. Being named in a new lawsuit doesn't mean necessarily new fees for BHOA - it all depends on how it pans out. SWHOA on the other hand really had no assets or budget for that and given how much bigger their effort was.. they had to raise 'new' money to fund it all.
     
  9. Zeratul

    Zeratul Well-Known Member

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    I think we had 8-10 homeowners (which I would characterize as dismal attendance) but I did not expect much more. We all have a hard time with schedules and meeting attendance in general. People have better things to do with their time. Sure there were plenty of re-hashing or old complaints and frustrations but a common theme to much of the concerns goes back to a lack of communication.

    There is no obvious "one" answer to address that either... we talked about a secure web site for SWHOA business where homeowners could be given an official resource to read Board announcements and info and a separate section for Forum discussions. These are not new ideas but we continue to struggle with the BHOA website, Facebook and meetings as being just not enough or inclusive enough. I think most homeowners would understand that there is a difference between sharing legal strategy vs staying informed. And as long as the Facebook page is used for discussions by Board members we will continue to have these problems. the Facebook page is not all inclusive and there are quite a few homeowners who do not use Facebook on purpose.

    There is pretty high cost with conducting mailings, and that is just so tedious and ridiculous to think the Board can only do that. Time and effort are big challenges to run a website but perhaps that is the "best" idea we have. This litigation is not going away any time soon (my opinion)...so I think we need something.

    And another challenge we will continue to have with the community meetings is that without structure or leadership, we will continue to have the same meandering conversations. It is true that Cogs does most of the talking, but he has a passionate approach and until some new voices come forward and make an effort to get involved, that is what we have. (my 2 cents)
     
  10. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    Struggle with the BHOA website in what sense?

    We have given SW self-controlled space in the past - the problem was it was mismanaged and abandoned once Erika's tact changed. There was a SW Tech Committee in the past, and they had a private forum here where they could self-regulate access. The problem was instead of actually acting like a committee, access to the forum was managed like a 'who do I want to be part of the conversation' instead of based on a committee membership. (sound familiar???). The forum space was abandoned and eventually shutdown once the SW tech committee pettered out.

    What we have told people repeatedly, is we do not have the info or manpower to validate a member's homeownership so when people say 'I only want homeowners...' we tell them No (there are other reasons for this too.. but if you want to create a filtered member set.. we aren't going to do it).

    If residents have a technology need for the community that serves the community - they are free to bring them to the technology committee for discussion to see if the community resources can be used. But because they are BHOA ran.. we do have to vet concepts. But we do have websites, forums, mailing lists, etc.
     
  11. cogs

    cogs Well-Known Member

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    The reason often given by SWHOA for non-communication is the cost. Evidently, it costs around $800 to send a postcard mailer. At one time, SWHOA is to post its budgets and minutes of the meetings on SWHOA.net website. That is abandoned.

    Then they used the Openband forum for a while before abandoning it. Reason given was, Openband is reading it.

    Facebook group is created to have only the authenticated southern walk homeowners. But, only 10-20% homes are represented there.

    I can buy the the argument that need to protect the Openband litigation details, if were any details of the litigation strategy revealed by the board. SWHOA does not even publish its minutes and decisions like collection policies which have nothing to do with Openband litigation. For SWHOA, everything is "sensitive" information.

    If there is a WILL to communicate with the homeowners, they can easily establish an authenticated email list. Email communications are FREE.
     
  12. Zeratul

    Zeratul Well-Known Member

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    Steve, you accurately summed up my point, that is exactly what I meant. We have been down this path before and thus, I do not expect anything new to come of this latest discussion. There is little chance that any new voices will come forward and work with the Board to manage something like this. Those are the same complaints I have heard before about the HOA forums and lack of a SWHOA website.
     
  13. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    I don't agree. But I'm also of the mindset that it's futile to think you should be worried about information falling into the wrong hands. The idea of sharing with the whole community while being able to limit who ultimately sees the info is impossible. As soon as you give someone something... you lose any control over it's distribution. So instead of pissing into the wind... turn around and accept the information is out there and embrace the reality. You must decide what is more important... controlling distribution or building common knowledge. It's clear what path SWHOA has taken.

    The BHOA has services to serve it's residents. This 'woe is me' we have no way of communicating is BS. You could ask for something as simple as a self-subscribing 'interest group' mailing list that could be broadcast only. The forums could be used... or other ideas as well. Things that are community serving - and not personal - are worthy of consideration IMO.

    SWHOA didn't want to use the HOA services because 1) when developer controlled they had no interest in improving this 2) Once resident controled, they didn't want anything they couldn't personally vet/moderate. We wouldn't do a resident screening, so they made something up themselves... which isn't screened to just be homeowners, but instead who they want in or not.

    The digital formats should not be looked at right now to replace the legal notification requirements - but it could certainly be used for community info/etc.

    People need to be clear on what they are truly after...
    1) do they want a forum to discuss things
    or
    2) a method of distributing information

    The problem is if you want #1 - you need to accept there will be opinions that do not agree with your own within the community and all voices should be allowed as long as things are constructive.
     
  14. Villager

    Villager Ashburn Village Resident

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    Mailchimp is a fabulous email distribution list program. For fewer than 2,000 subscribers it's free.

    http://mailchimp.com/
     
  15. Zeratul

    Zeratul Well-Known Member

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    Personally, Steve I completely agree with you. I was partly describing the discussions that were taking place. I am saddened to see the direction our HOA has taken things...for a long time this has become a fiefdom centrally managed with the mentality of a bunker. I would really love just to have #2 from your list but that will never happen either.
     
  16. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member Forum Staff

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    Why not.. do it without the SWHOA. Press them for info and then distribute it yourselves. 'If you build it.. they will come'
     
  17. sowalker

    sowalker New Member

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    Just vote Sashi in he'll post anything!
     

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